Human Up Season 1 Ep 3: From New York Tough to Las Vegas Healer

This is a transcript of Human Up Podcast Season 1, Episode 3 with Tony Carter which you can watch and listen to here:

David Marlon: Welcome to the Human Up Podcast. I'm your host, Dave Marlon, and it is a huge honor for me to have Tony Carter as our special guest today. Welcome, Tony! 

Tony Carter: Yes, sir. Glad to be here!

David: I'm so glad you are. Now. Tony is a licensed mental health professional here at Vegas Stronger. He is noted that his ultimate goal is to save lives. Tony's biggest achievement has been creating two programs geared for veterans, a population that's often overlooked in the mental health and substance abuse treatment field. He was born in Staten Island, New York has a BA in psychology from LIU, long Island University. Carter's been able to thrive in the treatment field for over 31 years. He began an industry at 20 months sober and once said someone was crazy enough to hire me and I survived. His favorite hobbies outside of helping those with addiction and into recovery are bowling, referee and basketball, skeet shooting and watching Cold Case the first 48 hours in Judge Judy. Welcome Tony Carter. Let's start by, could you tell me what made you choose to become a therapist?

Tony: Well, I think that was a natural being. What happened was I had a life of addiction for over 24 years, Dave, and long story short, the end of my road was still thinking I was okay sleeping at the New York Ferry terminal on the floor at the ferry and still thinking I'm okay. And like I said, I got thrown out of a crack house and that was my awakening to go and get help. And I went over and I went to a detox and they told me I needed to go and get help. And of course I told them all I need is a job, I'll be fine. But thank God, I realized within two days before I left that detox that I need to go and get some help. And I went to a 28 day program up in Vermont that turned my life around and put me on the right track. And I came out of there and they said, you better make sure the first thing you do is go to a meeting when you get back home to Staten Island. And here's the funny part, Dave. They put me in a shelter two blocks from the projects I had been using in for the last three years. And because of the program and God, I've been able to stay clean for the past two years with no slips, dips, or weekend trips.

David: That's amazing. Wow. So you discharged from a residential treatment center in Vermont. This is 30 from one years ago and set you up in a shelter.

Tony: Yes. It was an overnight shelter and it was a shelter that you could only stay in overnight. So you could come in at five o'clock and you had to leave at seven o'clock in the morning and you had to stay clean on the streets. And like I said, that projects I had been using in was just two blocks away from where I came in and they told me, I don't care. Whatever happens, Tony, there's no reason for you to go through them projects. I don't care if you've got to go to the other side, you make sure you walk around. And I respected that and I was so scared and beat up. I did the things I was told when I came in here and they was able to help me to stay clean, Dave. It's amazing. Wow.

David: Now did you go to a meeting each day when you're in that shelter?

Tony: Yes. I went to a meeting every day and thank God they had this place called Project Hospitality, which was a drop-in center that opened up at like nine o'clock. So you could go there, they would feed you and hang around. It was a safe place. So I became a regular person. And the funny part is from that shelter, which was the same one that I was sleeping in, my first employment was at that same shelter and I started letting people into the shelter that I had become part of, and that was my first employment after that. But it was really weird coming in and getting on the other side, Dave of my addiction because I was so used to coming in there and just hiding in the corner. I got to tell you, Dave, when I first got clean, I had a life. I had some things, but addiction had wiped away everything. And when I first got clean, I swear Dave, I couldn't talk. I couldn't put two sentences together. I couldn't even remember the Serenity Prayer. It took me about a month and a half just to learn those three sentences because I was so burnt out from my active addiction, which was over 24 years of my life.

David: Wow. When you were talking about getting a job at the shelter and all of a sudden you were in a place where you belonged, that's a really powerful feeling. Can we talk about that for a minute?

Tony: Sure, sure. That was a gift because when I came into that shelter, Dave, it was like I was so petrified and horrified of life talking or doing at anything. But my first couple of weeks they walked me through and they actually gave me the compassion and the love that actually I was looking for that drove my addiction the whole time when I started using. And what I have found is most of the clients I know that are addicts and come into treatment, we all started the same way. Most of us started our addiction because we wanted to fit in someplace and have some friendship and have some company and peer pressure and all that stuff. So when I went in there, most of the people in the shelter still didn't really want to change. So most of them were still talking about what they're going to do at night, where they're going to go and this and that. There was only one or two people that really were talking about wanting to change, but thank God I gravitated to those people that were going the same direction I was and it was able to help me to stay in there. And then they started giving me little things to do extra around the shelter, and they saw that I was serious until they actually brought me on and made me one of their hires.

David: That's so beautiful. It's amazing. This all happened in one of the five boroughs of New York City. Now you and I are both New Yorkers now. Do you think being a New Yorker that we're part of a a different type of breed? And I always struggle putting this in words, but I noticed something different about New Yorkers. You

Tony: Oh, there's no question, especially in our timeframe. I'm a little older than you, but when I grew up in New York at that time in the fifties and sixties, I was born in 55. There were no clean people in my neighborhood, Dave.

Everybody was doing something. There was no such thing as change or recovery or doing anything. And then when I grew up on the streets, it was real hard for young men to not portray a lie when I grew up, if a man talked about feelings, they would look at you like you're crazy or want to slap you in the head. If you talked about helping somebody else, you said they would tell you, you better just go and get yours and make it happen. So that whole culture of New York and also the culture of it being so direct that New Yorkers are the most loving people in the world, but they are direct and they are coming at you, which is one of the things I had to learn in treatment because people in treatment come from different places and they need different things. Well, one of the things that really helped me, Dave, somebody told me early on when I was in recovery, they told me the smartest teacher, the best teacher is not the teacher that knows the most.

The best teacher is the teacher that can reach the most students. And that stuck with me for a long time, and I've been able to incorporate that into my abilities to help people in treatment because I individualize them instead of just trying to put everybody into a cookie cutter. And you realize that coming from a different place, everybody in here needs different things. So we have to be flexible if we're going to succeed and thrive in this field. But the background I got in New York, which was make it happen, don't take no for an answer and keep going. As you know, new Yorkers get, it did help me on this journey into recovery. Yes, it did.

David: Yeah, me too. It was interesting growing up in New York, there were some neighborhoods that I knew if I went into that I'd get beat up, no

Tony: Question.

DavidDavid: So there was clearly New York doesn't convey a message of safety.

Tony: I going to tell you a quick story that you just said that Dave, my first, I came back from my 20th day program. I wound up in the shelter over there, and I went to a meeting that night on Friday night and it was all black. There were people in there that I used to use with, and I was asking them, well, where have you been? And they would tell me, we've been in here getting clean, stupid. We've been waiting on you and we're glad you're here, Tony. But it was really overwhelming. It was all black and I was overwhelmed, but the next day I had to make a meeting and I had to go down to Rosebank on Staten Island, which is all Italian, and this is an area that I wouldn't even walk down the streets at night. There was this little bridge and they didn't cross and we didn't cross.

That's the way it was. So somehow God gave me the courage by myself to get on the bus and go down to Rose Bank. And I made this meeting and I walked into that meeting and there was about 50 or 60 people, only one black person in the meeting. And I sat down in that meeting, and when they started the meeting, they said, is anybody new or just coming in? And I got up and I said, this is my second meeting. I went to a meeting last night over here, and you know what those people did? And this changed my whole life, Dave. Those white people in that meeting of Narcotics Anonymous stood up and lined up to welcome me just like the black people did the night before. So all that hate that I had for white people went out the window that day. I just realized that people are just people. And to me, long story short, that group of all white people became my home group for the next eight years, and I left that group and moved to Las Vegas. And by the time I left that group, it was a mixed group of black and white people. So I became part of the solution and not part of the problem.

David: That's absolutely amazing. Yeah, and I'm glad we're talking about this because to me, the racial, and it wasn't just racial, it was like neighborhoods. I mean, I wouldn't go into the Irish neighborhood. I mean, it's very ghettoed in New York.

Tony: York is as segregated as they come,

David: Right? Yeah, certainly I wouldn't go into the Mexican or the Spanish neighborhoods either. But you're right in the rooms of recovery, it's the great equalizer. And it's also amazing because I bet both those meetings, the same kind of characters were there and you hear similar stories regardless of your Irish or Mexican or whatever. We all lost our soul to drugs and ourselves to drugs or alcohol. Yeah, that's beautiful. You

Tony: Know something that's funny, Dave, is that I grew up in New York, so I told you addiction was prevalent. So by the time I was seven, eight, my older brother was a heroin user, and I would remember he would disrupt the whole household because soon as he got up in the morning, he had to go to Brooklyn Union Gas to work. He'd go in the bathroom, shoot up, take an hour, and we only had one bathroom and we had five kids. So he would take up the whole place and then he would leave his blood on the thing. So my whole thoughts of addiction was mainly IV users and heroin users, and I became a cocaine user. So I always had this problem, well, I'm not a real addict, but in retrospect, my addiction of cocaine, which you have to use a lot more of and spend a lot more money on than heroin used, is you could spend $20 and you could be high the whole day. $2 bags back then got your high. So I had to really come into grips that, no, Tony, you may not be doing that, but your life is out of control and you need help. And that's the one thing that clients have to understand. It doesn't matter how much or what you use, if what you're doing is affecting your quality of life, you just might be an addict.

David: Agreed. Yeah. And it's funny how a cocaine user could look at a heroin user and just see, oh, I'm not like him or I'm not like her. I remember in my addiction, there were some people that I would go and use cocaine nasally with, but if I ever smoked cocaine with them, I would be terrible. And then I have a different group of people that it would be okay to smoke with and they each looked down on each other even though they were each sick, myself included. It's weird. No doubt. Now you went to high school on Staten Island as well. What high school?

Tony: I'm a graduate of Susan Wagner High School. And that was funny because I went to junior high school in Stapleton, and at that time, all the high schools and junior high schools were kind of zoned. So if you went to this school, you had to go to this high school. So I was supposed to go to Curtis High school, but a little Jewish. I started playing basketball in seventh grade up at the Jewish Community Center in my neighborhood. And there was a little Jewish kid that lived way far from me, but he saw I was tall. Now I wasn't good at basketball yet, but I was tall for the kids. So he went up to the high school coach and told the coach, I got this guy who plays with us and he wants to come to our high school. Now, I wasn't supposed to go.

I was supposed to go to the other school called Curtis, but somehow they worked out a special variance because the coach thought me being tall, I was good, which I really wasn't. So they got me a special variance and I went up to Susan Wagner high school and the coach, I remember he told me after my first year there, he said, Tony, you really have gotten good. I remembered when you first came here. I was so disappointed. You sucked, but you were tall. But he practiced with me every day. And the one thing I've gotten from New York, Dave, I'm competitive. I don't care if it's marbles, I want to win. That's just my personality. So he took me on the varsity basketball team as a freshman and he made me practice and he made me tie my right hand up and only use my left and do all this stuff.

And by my sophomore year, I became a starting player for him. And I actually was fortunate enough to get a full scholarship to college after that. So if that didn't happen, my whole world wouldn't be the same because my family and I wasn't going to college if that basketball hadn't come. And I fell into it because I hated basketball. I was a football and baseball player, but because I was tall in junior high school, they made me play basketball. And it was the blessing that got me through college and got me on overseas. I was even able to play overseas for about five years after college.

David: Wow. Where'd you play overseas?

Tony: Oh, I played three years in Italy and two years in Spain.

David: That's amazing. Where in Italy?

Tony: Well, I played in three different plays. I played at the bottom by the boot down in Sicily, and then I played a year and a half up by the top up by Rome. I got pretty good in those two years that he formulated me in high school. Yeah. So you

David: Played in Spain too?

Tony: What was that?

David: Where'd you play in Spain?

Tony: Oh, I played outside of Madrid and I played there for two seasons. They would only allow two Americans on each team back in those days, and the rest of the team had to be from local people, and I was blessed and qualified enough that I made the teams over there and was able to play. Then I came back home and opened up a childhood dream. I opened up a bodega back on Staten Island and my hometown blocks from where I got clean

David: Now a bodega that's like a little local market that serves everything. Yeah, Dali nice. Oh wow. Huh. Yeah, the bodega on the corner, you taking back.

Tony: I was selling chickens and skin fries and ribs, and the funny part was I was doing so good. I had a little roaster, a church's chicken opened up the store up the block from me and I thought I was going out of business and two years later they was out of business and I was still open.

David: Wow, that's amazing. So that was during your another decade after school that you stayed in New York before you moved to Vegas?

Tony: Yeah, my first, I graduated at 21, I was playing ball till I was about 26, 27. Then I came back home and I had that chance to have that childhood dream and open up the bodega. Yes.

David: So what got you to Vegas?

Tony:

That's a weird story, Dave. I was clean about eight years, seven years, and me and my wife went down to Atlantic City because a friend of mine, a friend of hers, wanted us to check out this timeshare place and we wasn't, had no interest in buying it, but he said, go check it out. They'll give you dinner. Well, we went down there and long story short, we bought a timeshare in Atlantic City and our first trip that we ever took was to the MGM in Las Vegas.

David: And we

Tony: Came out to Las Vegas, and I'm clean now about eight years. And we went to a meeting that first night that we got here at the 3M Club on Decatur, and I was mad at everybody. Dave Dec cab couldn't find the place, nobody did. The meetings weren't the same, they wasn't one. Right. You don't know what you're doing. And I hated that meeting. But here's the hit. One of the recovering people at that meeting offered to drive me back to the MGM, and I took the ride and that person and his wife picked me up and my wife every day that we were here in Las Vegas and showed us around Vegas. That's what really made me come here because we got off the strip because the strip wasn't nothing big to me. I'm from New York, we had a 42nd street. But when I got off the strip and he took us down the prim and he showed us the homes in Summerland and he drove us around and it was so clean and so different here that we went back home and my wife didn't mention it about a year.

Then all of a sudden she says, why don't we move to Las Vegas? I said, are you crazy? Where did that come from? So I said, I'm married now 20 years. So I said, baby, if you want to look into it, I called my friend Tony, and what he did was I told him, I'm thinking about moving out there, Tony. I set up a trip out here. He had a realtor meet me at the airport the day I came in, and I found the house that same day that I lived in for my first 14 years here in Las Vegas.

And we moved out here with no jobs. I'm in addiction, she's in nursing. We just moved here on Faith, Dave, and we moved here on trusting God because here's what happened back in New York, we had to sell our home, and if you know anything about New York homes, don't sell fast in New York. So we had our home set up and when we went and put it on the market, it sold for full asking price. The second day we had it on the market. So I guess that was a sign from God that it was okay to move.

David: Yeah. What year was that?

Tony: That was back, let's see, I got here in 2001, so we must have found that home in 99.

David: Wow. It took a

Tony: Moving get out here and the same friend I I'm telling you about, he wash my house.

David: So what year did you move to Las Vegas?

Tony: I actually moved to Vegas in 2001, but getting here was a hell of a journey. I had come out to Vegas in like 97. We had bought, my wife's friend convinced us to go to Atlantic City and take this timeshare presentation, and we didn't have no interest in no timeshare with doing that, but he was our best friend. So we went down there with no intention of buying, and we actually came away with a timeshare. We had this timeshare and our first trip that we ever took was to the MGM in Las Vegas.

We got to Las Vegas, and this must have been about 97, 98, we got to Las Vegas and we went to a meeting that first night and I was very upset. The cab driver couldn't find a place, the meeting wasn't run, nobody was doing things like, I know this program's supposed to work. And I came out and I was whining at the meeting and this guy came and him and his wife drove us back to the MGM that first night. But not only did they drive us back, they were so loving and caring. They picked us up every day at the MGM and showed us around Vegas. They drove us down the prim and we got on the amusement rides. They drove us up. They lived in Summerland and had a beautiful house and a boat. They drove us around the whole Vegas and showed us the town because if we had just stayed on the strip, I would've never moved here because the strip didn't impress me.

I had 42nd street back in New York City, so that wasn't that impressive. But when we got off the strip and looked at Vegas, how clean it was and how different it was, and there was no potholes on the streets, it was just so different that we loved it. So we didn't think nothing of it. We had a great trip and we went back home and about a year later, my wife says to me, Tony, let's move to Las Vegas. So I asked her, where did that come from? And she said, well, I thought about it. I said, listen, I don't know. I'm married a few years now, Dave. So all I'm saying is yes dear. And I called my friend back, Tony, and I said, Tony, we are thinking about moving out to Vegas. And he said, don't worry, set your flight and I'll have a realtor meet you at the airport.

And he had a realtor meet us at the airport. We got off the plane, we got in his car, and we went out looking for homes, and we found the home that we lived in for our first 14 years in Vegas that same day. So we got around. It's amazing. It's amazing. So we found the home, but we still hadn't sold our home yet. So we had to go back to New York. And in New York, things don't come off as quick and it don't happen. So we got our house ready, we put it on the market, and to my amazement, my house sold for full asking price the second day it was on the market. So that was a God shot that, you know what, we're moving to Las Vegas now. I didn't have a job out there. She didn't have a job. Thank God she's working in nursing. I'm working in addictions. So we knew we would find something. We're in the right fields. So we packed up, we sold our house, and that friend of mine, it took us about a year to a year and a half to get everything done. That friend actually house, sat for me, cut the grass and did everything at my house in Las Vegas until we was able to move out there. So we got out here in the summer of 2001, two weeks before the World Trade Center.

David: Oh, wow. And

Tony: I used to be able to see the World Trade Center out of my bedroom window on Staten Island when I lived in New York. So that was very traumatic that we were here two weeks and we're watching this building coming down, and it would really put us through a lot of feelings. But we knew that the change was, and we both found work, and we've been here now, Vegas is home. My wife took her about 10 years to let go of New York, but I was ready in about six months. I love this place. I don't, I don't want no more cold. I don't want no more anything. I'm loving it here. So that's how we got to Las Vegas, which is really weird, but a very loving and story of how good God is and when he's ready, he'll make it happen.

David: And how much recovery is intertwined in each of our lives and how significant it is.

Tony: Yeah. At that time, I moved here with nine years clean.

And here's one of the beautiful parts that I don't share a lot, Dave, but I really felt I had a solid recovery and I knew I did. But when I came out here to Las Vegas, I found this town is really strong for recovery. And I got into a bloodline. And when I was here, not even a year when I celebrated 10 years, these guys gave me a whole week of welcoming me and letting me know how much they loved me. And it was the most awesome feeling in the world to be someplace new, but to feel so loved at the same time. It was just amazing, Dave. So we came in here and it's been a love fest ever since.

David: That's so beautiful. Let me switch gears here. You do some work with the veterans program. Do you work with any vets in Vegas stronger?

Tony: Oh, yes. I worked with a couple here, and I had the good fortune before I came to join you guys. And I do want to say just a little plug, but I love the work that we're doing here at Las Vegas and Vegas stronger because the way we're outreaching and the way we're getting people in here and with the speed and with the accuracy and with the determination. I've never been in a program, and I've been working in this field for 31 years now. I've never been in a program that meets the clients where their needs are Vegas stronger and are willing to help a client even if there's no reward in terms of insurance or payment. We help people anyway, which I find amazing. So that's the only reason why I'm probably still working because I'm getting ready to retire. But I love coming to work, Dave.

It's still a thrill for me to come here and what we're doing here really makes a big difference. So I just wanted to throw that in there. But in terms of the veterans, I had the opportunity when I first got here before I came to join you to work with the veterans and create a veterans program at the US vets here in town. And I remembered walking into that building for my first interview. And Dave, I had about 20 years clean, but it was overwhelming. There were needles in the hallways on the ground, the place was contaminated. Now they were doing a great job of bringing people in and getting them to work, but they didn't have no program to address their addictions and their needs. So of course, all they did is have a bunch of recidivism and everybody would get a job then fall off and come back and do this. So they actually asked me to come in and start a program for the veterans that's going to make them have to address their addictions first. And I'm real proud of that because we started that program and within a year and a half, we had a percentage of, I think it was like 60% of the people that came through the program were getting a year clean outside and staying clean.

David: That's awesome.

Tony: Yeah.

David: Wow. That's a big change,

Tony: Man. See, that's what fuels the fire. Dave is seeing results and doing things here that make people get this gift of recovery that we so much appreciate.

David: So you're no stranger to making new programs in addition to a veteran program. You made the motivational group here at Vegas Strong. What's that about?

Tony: Well, I think after a while, and we were here for a while, we realized that getting people to look at recovery differently is important. And I think that adding the piece about the motivation has really helped a lot of the people realize that it ain't just about stop using. You got to have motivation to create personal change. And that means trusting people, changing behaviors, asking for help, doing what's suggested instead of just what you want to do. And we cover all those different aspects and challenge people's motivation and the motivational group. And I do think that we've been making a big difference. And then before I got here, I was able to create a program called Dual Success for the Las Vegas Recovery Center back in the day, back in the hood down there by Tropicana. And it really, I mean, it was so bad down there.

I used to go down there and feel like I was in the Bronx in New York City, and it was that bad. But what we did was we created this dual success because you're talking about the veterans, but dual success. And we do this here at Vegas stronger too. I don't know too many people that aren't addicts that don't have mental health issues also. So what I did over there was combine that dual success so that we combine the mental health and the dual success so that when people left, they would not only clean, but they were mentally and spiritually better. And that made a difference too. And I try to bring that, and I think we do a good job of covering all the little bases here. I'm real big on homeostasis and taking care of myself, but like I said, being that good teacher, I want to make sure I reach as many students as I can, not just know everything. A lot of people know stuff, but if you're not reaching the student, what good is it?

David: You

Tony: See what I mean? So my goal is to reach these students and some of 'em need a kick in the butt. Some of 'em need a pat on the butt. So you got to use your different skills for different clients because everybody has different needs, Dave, and I do appreciate you for allowing me to do what I do.

David: I recognize what you do. And to me, although we serve the most underserved population, seeing so many clients thrive both in your ILP group and in the motivational group, it's just heartwarming.

Tony: And I don't want to leave out my op group, which is doing fantastic stuff in the community too right now with a monthly visit over to a senior citizens place.

David: Yeah. You're always talking to me about, Hey, are we going to go, whether it's going to do equine therapy or visiting the senior home or getting involved in service. So the fact that you're able to not only help folks address their mental health issues and their substance use disorders, but also get them outside of themselves, it, it's a testament to your capability as a therapist,

Tony: Even though it's hard to integrate, and I know you believe in this too. The power of self-help support in our clients' lives is vital. So we try to incorporate that. We're getting more meetings here. We get 'em out once in a while, and I think that plays a big, that's what I'm talking about, about reaching everybody, because if you got 2015 clients, one or two might get the meetings. One or two might get the just going out to the aquarium place, one or two might touch on yoga, one or two might touch on this. But if we do enough, we're going to be able to touch all the bases,

David: Right? Yeah. That's what we're trying to do.

Tony: No, we doing it.

David: We're doing it. Exactly. Exactly. Now, give me a kind of greatest hit shot from the motivational group. What are you telling people in the motivational group?

Tony: One, don't be afraid to ask for help. Two, get in touch with your feelings and what you're feeling, because if you're going to get motivated, you got to get past the soot and the damage from our past that affects our present and keeps us stuck. I think that's the two leading things that I try to preach on a weekly basis to get them to open up. Then just make them understand that without motivation to create change, no change will happen. It's about taking ownership of your life. Stop making it about, well, it's Tony's fault. Well, if Dave is my problem, then I got to wait on Dave to fix it. But if Tony's the problem, I can take charge and fix it and not have to wait on Dave to fix it.

David: Amen. Good stuff. It's a little personal ownership of one's recovery.

Tony: Amen.

David: Okay, to wrap up, I call the podcast Human Up, and I'm going to ask you, what does Human Up mean to you?

Tony: When I hear you say that human up is kind of what I was just talking about, to me it means I need to take responsibility. That if it's to be, it's up to me. I need to take control of my destination, but also what I need to human up was I need to be able to go back and look over this shoulder and see my past because most of us, what effects are today is being stuck in the past and not let those things that were unfortunate, A lot of people had problems, Dave, where that wasn't their fault. They was abused. They had a lot of issues, and it affects their today because they've never gone through the process, through those steps or therapy to let that stuff go. And we're dragging around our past, like a ball and chain on our ankle. So I really spend a lot of time trying to get people comfortable enough with me so that we're able to go back and look at that past and not be ashamed of it so we can let it go and start to build a new tomorrow.

David: If it's to go, it's up to me.

Tony: Hey, man, that's my motto.

David: I'm taking that Tony Carter Pearl for sure. Oh man. We're going to wrap up. Is there anything else you want to say before we part?

Tony: I'm just getting started.

David: I know, right?

Tony: I'm really glad I see us making a difference, and I'm glad you gave me a chance to come in here and share a little bit of Tony Carter from a different perspective, Dave.

David: So I appreciate you so much. I know you've helped hundreds while you're here, and I'm grateful that we got to spend 50 minutes, just you and I, one New Yorker to another who are both Las Vegas recovery rock stars, sharing our experience, strength, and hope.

Tony: Yes, sir. My pleasure.

David: Thank you so much for being a guest on the Human Up Podcast, Tony Carter. God bless you.

Tony: Amen. See y'all have a great day.

David: Alright, you too.

Tony: Bye.